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Narcissism

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Narcissism

Post by Luney on Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:02 pm

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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:02 am

Yeah i've encountered a Narcissist, horrendous, although over time the difference between a Narcissist and a Sociopath doesnt seem all that different, other than the label.
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:05 am

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Re: Narcissism

Post by Evie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:13 am

A sociopath doesn't follow the rules
A sign of being a sociopath is impulsivity
A sociopath lives in the present purely for pleasure, excitement, and instant gratification
Signs of a sociopath are careless and reckless behavior
The sociopath is also unpredictable and quite unreliable

Oh no, looks like I'm a bit of a sociopath Razz Flattered Scratchhead


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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:19 am

Lol Evie dont forget the Sociopath also has no empathy or remorse for anyone ever.

I think if you compare the Sociopath to the Narcissist the only difference i can really see is the Narcissist had childhood issues and actually if you read into the condition further they have very low self esteem and hate themselves usually.
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Evie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:23 am



...seriously though, narcissism and sociopathy are fascinating topics. I know it's not good to "armchair diagnose" people in our lives (I mean I certainly have some narcissitic traits myself, but I'm pretty sure I don't have NPD), but it's interesting to realise that certain patterns of behaviour do suggest a personality disorder.


Narcissists...have low self-esteem. This facet of their psyche is complicated, because superficially their self-regard would appear to be higher and more assured than just about anyone else’s. Additionally, given their customary "drivenness," it’s not uncommon for them to rise to positions of power and influence, as well as amass a fortune (and see here my post “Narcissism: Why It’s So Rampant in Politics”). But if we examine what’s beneath the surface of such elevated social, political, or economic stature—or their accomplishments generally—what typically can be inferred is a degree of insecurity vastly beyond anything they might be willing to avow.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/what-mentally-strong-people-dont-do/201511/7-things-only-narcissists-do

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201110/the-narcissists-dilemma-they-can-dish-it-out

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201311/6-signs-narcissism-you-may-not-know-about

And for Sherlock's friends...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wicked-deeds/201401/how-tell-sociopath-psychopath

Edit: You got in there before me Nighty Smile

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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:28 am

Yeah it isnt great to armchair diagnose I agree,but i'm pretty sure i've suffered at the hands of a Sociopath (although Narcissist would fit just as well, hence we shouldnt diagnose), it's interesting because I was reading that the difference between a Psycopath and Sociopath is really only chemistry vs behaviour. Sometimes its just labels I guess.

and without offending anyone I decided a long time ago that pretty much anyone can be diagnosed with some sort of disorder if you dig deep enough lol
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Evie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:50 am

This topic makes me think of this ---

Confessions of a Sociopath

I have never killed anyone, but I have certainly wanted to. I may have a disorder, but I am not crazy. In a world filled with gloomy, mediocre nothings populating a go-nowhere rat race, people are attracted to my exceptionalism like moths to a flame. This is my story.

I don't actually think I've read this particular article before but I read a similar one. This one is a lot more scary than the one I remembered.

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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 9:52 am

It does open up the concept of 'define crazy' we attach these names and labels and decide people are crazy because they go against the norm of society, or they dont fit in to what people class as 'acceptable'
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Luney on Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:06 am

I sort of have been perceiving it in a way that almost every sociopath is a narcissist, but not every narcissist is a sociopath. Or in a sense sociopath sounds borderline criminal to me, or ready to go out on mass shootings, whereas a narcissist can be very law abiding and rule following, but torture family members that have been isolated by him. Of course you know a lot more than me about these subjects, that's just how they have come across to me so far.
It's funny that someone under it commented that Donald Trump has all the traits lol.

Don't worry Evie, I've heard that if you are asking yourself if you may be a sociopath or a narcissist, then it's a sign you are not one, because narcissist would never assume something be wrong with them or that they are "crazy".
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:17 am

I actually probably know as much as you guys really, its never been something I studied in depth when I was doing Psychology, I tend to go away and research a lot myself and it helps that Counselling textbooks cover lots of different things so I just tend to do my own reading and learning on these things, I guess it just helps to know sometimes.

I'd agree with pretty much all of your perspective Luney, only I would personally say all disorders are capable of being law abiding and criminal really, you dont even have to have a disorder to commit a heinous crime like murder, look at crimes of passion or manslaughter.. there's countless reasons people do these things

and yeah i've read the Donald Trump stuff too in various posts on the internet laugh

Agreed Evie, Narcissist, Sociopath and Psychopath wouldnt even consider there being something wrong, they're always right, however I think NPD can be treated and helped its just blinking hard to get them to realise their behaviour is wrong in the first place.

http://www.counselling-directory.org.uk/narcissistic.html
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Evie on Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:13 am

Oh no I know I'm not a sociopath lol, I was only joking. Whenever I read these lists I can't help thinking that they are problematic in that - as Night said - if you go deep enough just about everybody fits with some traits of some disorder or psychological problem. In a way I'd say of course scratch the surface and nobody is "normal," but on the other hand I sometimes wonder if there isn't a tendency within psychology to overanalyse and overdiagnose and even - in some cases - see problems where there are none. It's actually a humour trope in Czech film, people being declared mad and locked up in mental hospitals even if they are not mad. This does bring up the question of what Night said, "define crazy." Where does sanity end and insanity begin? Obviously there is DSM and every real diagnosis is rigorously made, but I suppose I - and perhaps many other people - have a latent anxiety about the borders of normalcy, about being made into something I know I am not. Perhaps because it explores something as inherently nebulous as the mind, I guess psychology naturally has that scary side. In a sense, the more we look for problems inside the mind, the more likely we are to find them, and the more we focus on these newfound problems, the more problematic they seem and the crazier the person feels, even if they weren't actually crazy to start with they could potentially *become* crazy....

Hm, this wasn't really meant to turn into a rant about psychology being scary. Wink That's the kind of rant the mentally ill have in the movies... Scratchhead Actually I really overexaggerated my starting thought, which is simply that there is a danger of looking too much at these lists online. I have a friend who fits very well with what you can read on the internet and in encyclopedias about BD, BPD, anxiety disorder, and NPD, and the more I read those things the more "not normal" they seem. And yet they don't necessarily have any disorder at all.



Also of course this whole topic brings up the problem of stigma around mental illness. As Night pointed out, the non-mentally ill are just as likely to carry out crimes as the mentally ill (can't remember but have a feeling "sane" people are statistically more likely to have criminal intent?).... mental illness does not mean that someone is going to be violent (though violent people are sometimes mentally ill --- and in a way I would argue that whoever commits a crime has something really "off" inside even if they aren't "crazy"). And of course mental illness is not even really always about insanity at all, things like depression and anxiety don't qualify as insanity and personality disorders can't be used for the insanity defence at court.



To return to my earlier thoughts though -- I have a cousin who's a neurosurgeon and the psychologists he knows make him a bit uneasy because they are always finding weird things in the psychology of everyone around them, including him. Of course, he's a thrill-seeking, impulsive, slightly narcissistic, somewhat neurotic character, so...

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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 11:29 am

Yes I get exactly what you're saying, humans are so quick to judge and put labels on anything, if we so much as step outside the boundaries of what is deemed socially acceptable then we're clearly Psychotic or unstable or we have something wrong with us.

As much as I love the subject and Psyche I do agree there is a scary side where things are over analyzed and searched for, because as humans we need to make sense of everything and find an explanation for everything, infact I worry there's so much pressure to be labelled normal and to fit in and conform to society I wonder if that only adds to Mental Illness and creates even more problems, it seems the more stressful life becomes the more society demands of us the more unwell we become, and thats where the stigma hits, because we cant see it or understand it like a broken leg, we shun it and fear it.
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Luney on Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:45 pm

Yes nothing really fits in a box with clear lines, all the disorders and personality characters blend into each other and there is no saying where the "crazy" line goes, especially because even "crazy" people can act completely normally most times and then get a spell of madness.

Even the narcissism itself has many subtypes, in some places they categorize them into 4-5, in some there are many many more subtypes.


I think for me, a "crazy" person is someone that is unpredictable and can do or perceive things that are well, unlike most other people.
For example, when I was in Italy we visited some charity picnic at a mental hospital and one of the patients came up to me to say hello, he grabbed my hand and started shaking it while standing really close to me, kept staring me straight in the eye and just would not let go of my hand. I was desperately looking around for someone to save me trying to smile and not upset him. It really freaked me out. A friend of mine that served food at the mental hospital spoke of many incidents where patients have tried to launch themselves at him and try to kiss him or smile and act all normal, then suddenly click and attack him, trying to beat him with full force.
NPD, ADD, depression and such to me is not "crazy".
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Re: Narcissism

Post by Night Eyes on Thu Aug 25, 2016 12:59 pm

Yeah i agree I dont see these things as 'Crazy' or anything they're more disorders that can be treated no different from a physical illness if understood properly etc

well I think most things these days can be treated or helped, I would imagine the people in the hospital probably had more severe illnesses perhaps even psychosis etc, but even that can be temporary, there are forms that aren't permanent, people even have nervous breakdowns etc... so yeah Crazy and Normal are so blurred sometimes I wonder which one is the more insulting term lol
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